The Wild Hunt, Warherd of Drakwald. Three Generals, Three Lists. One decision!

Alrighty,  I'm down to ten models left for my Wood elves to paint and base.  This means that I have almost completed my goal of having my first army done before assembling my second army.  I spent a lot of time debating on which army to collect next.  

I really liked how the Skaven army book presented a horde of ratmen with chaotic warmachines that could be just as bad for me as it could be for my opponent.  The Clan Eshin really appealed to me because an army of Rat-ninjas just sounded pretty awesome.  Sadly, I had purchased the previous army book after the new one had come out by mistake.  The newer army book is really, really good but the power and might and flavor for Clan Eshin had been diminished.  The Island of Blood starter sets however made collecting Skaven even more attractive since getting 2 sets of it = 80 rats, 4 weapon platforms, 4 characters, and 4 rat ogres.  Not a bad deal if you think about it.  

The Beastman army book also appealed to me as well.  Again, I made the same mistake of buying the Beasts of Chaos army book after the Beastman book had come out.  The idea of a Minotaur army had me chomping at the bit to make an army with these guys.  Sadly...new book did not provide me with that option.  I did however get a very reasonable offer for a Beasts of chaos army via one of my buddies and that made my decision to obtain Beastmen as my next army very simple.

I've currently collected enough models to make an army out for both armies but I'm going to do the Beastmen first.  Enter the Warherd...

List Creation:

This aspect of wargaming is one of my favorites.  Not everyone has the same process.  You have various different styles of army building - all of which are perfectly fine and acceptable.
Here are the Core list building methods:
1. The Fluffer - pornography reference aside ... this army builder enjoys creating lists that follow the lore and overall theme of the army book.  They use units that fit the roleplaying and history theme of the book and the armies look fantastic because the overall theme shines through when placed on the table.

2. The Min-maxer - This army builder makes lists that capitalize on the best units and the best combos.  They generally take the minimum allowance of Core or Troops and concentrate heavily on strong Characters or HQ's.  Their armies generally function well and are designed to do one thing.  Win.

3. The Collector - This army builder makes his army out of the units that look cool.  He cares nothing for combos, fluff or lore. The model looks amazing, he uses it.  These armies generally look amazing because the collector is in the game more for the hobby than the actual game.  The armies are painted well beyond table-top standard and usually have a lot of artistic conversion done to them.

4. The Casual - This army builder generally buys an army book/codex, looks at a few units that he thinks are cool and builds an army based off that.  He doesn't really care about painting the army to pristine starndards, nor does he care about the combos.  His army is there to play against his friends and have a good time.  He will generally have 100 models and throw a list together in minutes to play against his buddies.

5. The Douche - This army builder is also called the Tourny.  The Douche will intentionally find the absolute best combos and exploits to ensure that he dominates his opponent.  He cares nothing for the theme, fluff, lore, look of his army.  His army is designed to capitalize on one sometimes two mega-combos to ensure that he is victorious.

I believe over the course of someone's wargaming experience that they go through all five stages of list building.  Each stage may only last a few days or may stretch on for years.  However, after people get used to  a game system and figure out how they like to play they will then develop their own hybrid style of how they make their lists.

Me for example:
I've gone through all five stages, some of them I've gone through a few times =).  Let's take a look at my thought process when making a list in order:

1. Theme - The roleplaying nerd inside me requires this be the first step.  I decide who I want leading the army or something the army is based around.  Example:  When I was making my Wood elves - I wanted Sylvos (my Elven ranger for the last 20+ years in D&D) to lead an army of elven rangers. I also look at what models I want to include into the army. i.e. I wanted to use the Waywatcher Lord model in my Wood elf list - vioce` Sylvos!  Once I have decided the theme I can then move on to the next step.

2. Strategy - How do I want the army to work?  Do I want it to be mobile, devastating in close combat, powerful at range, all of the above?  I will sit down and figure out what I want to be accomplished with the army.  I also sit down and read through the book and figure out exactly how the developers intended the unit to be used.  I take great pains during the Strategy phase to make sure I'm understanding how a unit is supposed to work.  No sense in grabbing a fork when you need a spoon.

3. Unit selection - After I've made my decision on theme and strategy, I look into what units will flip the bill.  This will normally boil down to - what units do you like John?  Does this unit fit the theme and strategy?  How do I want my characters/HQ's equipped?  

4. Synergy - I think playing Eldar has permanently warped my ability to look at an army book or codex and not be able to search for unit synergy.  I look at the units I have chosen to be in the army and decide how they will work together.  In every army I make, no one unit operates alone.  I will separate units into groups.  Those groups are labeled either "Kill teams" or given some retarded roleplaying name in order to keep them separate and operate as one mega-unit.

5. Douche check - I review my list to ensure I'm not powergaming.  Do I have something in my list that is unstoppable?  Have I created a group that will steamroll everyone I play?  If so, I remove the unit or tone down it's effectiveness to a reasonable level.  - Note: During Tournaments this step is intentionally ignored.  It's a tournament after all...

6.  Final review and posting - After I've gone over the list a few times and I feel it encompasses everything I wanted to get into the army, I will post the list for review with my friends.

This process is used in my own personal list building and is probably unique to how I play. I know a few of my friends don't even bother with some of the steps I utilize during my process and they add their own.  I feel my process helps me make balanced lists that fit my playstyle.  I also don't really change my list after it's finalized.  I learn to play with what I have chosen and make it work. I may tinker here and there but no changes I make should affect the theme of the army.

Now that you all have had a glimpse into my thought process for creating lists, I now present my final three beastman lists that I have created.

The format will go as follows:
List name 

List

Theme and Objectives.

I will leave out my standard fluffy role-playing add-ons for the sake of easy reading.  Once I have made my decision on what list to make I will fully nerd out my list to make it impossible to read without at least one eye roll.

Beastlord General List

Lord - Beastlord: General, Tuskgor Chariot, The Steel Claws, Armor of Fortune, Gnarled Hide - 310

Lord - Great Bray Shaman: Level 4, Lore of Beasts, Brass Cleaver, Talisman of Endurance (5+ ward), Ironcuse Icon  - 300 - Goes with Gor Herd

Hero - Wargor: Battle Standard Bearer, Sword of Swift Slaying, Shield, Heavy Armor, Dragonhelm, Talisman of Protection (6+ ward) - 166 - Goes with Bestigors

Core - 30 Gor Herd - Extra Hand Weapons, Full Command - 265

Core - 31 Ungor Herd - Spears, Full Command - 201

Core - 5 Chaos Warhounds - 30

Core - 5 Chaos Warhounds - 30

Core - Tuskgor Chariot - 80

Core - Tuskgor Chariot - 80

Special - 6 Minotaurs: Shields, Full Command, Terror Mask on Bloodkine - 429

Special - 19 Bestigor Herd: Banner of Eternal Flame, Full Command - 268

Special - 6 Harpies - 66

Rare - Cygor: 275

Total: 2500

This list capitalizes on the LD9 of the Beastlord.  His 18" LD bubble will help with the Primal Fury rolls for the Ungors, Bestigors, and Gors.  General moves with the chariots.  Chaos Hounds screen the Minotaurs and Bestigors while the Great Bray Shaman augments and smashes whatever he comes into contact with.  Straight forward close combat list that capitalizes on fast movement and Primal Fury.

Doombull General List

Lord - Doombull: General, Sword of Swift Slaying, Armor of Fortune, Gnarled Hide, Uncanny Senses, Shield - 326 - Goes with Minotaurs

Lord - Great Bray Shaman - Level 3, Mangelder, Talisman of Endurance (5+ ward), Ironcurse Icon - 285 - goes with one of the Gor herds.

Hero - Wargor: Battle Standard Bearer, The Steel Claws, Talisman of Protection (6+ ward), Heavy Armor - 164 - goes with Bestigors

Core - 24 Gor Herd - Extra Hand Weapons, Full Command - 217

Core - 24 Gor Herd - Extra Hand Weapons, Full Command - 217

Core - 30 Ungor Herd - Spears, Full Command - 195

Core - 5 Chaos Warhounds - 30

Core - 5 Chaos Warhounds - 30

Special - 5 Minotaurs: Shields, Full Command, Terror Mask on Bloodkine - 370

Special - 6 Harpies - 66

Special - Razorgor Herd - 55

Special - 19 Bestigor Herd: Full command, Banner of Eternal Flame - 268

Rare - Cygor: 275

Total: 2498

This list is meant to be absolutely brutal in close combat.  It's fast, it's tough and it has enough bodies to make long term combats worthwhile.  I lose the LD9 from the Beastlord but can really capitalize on Terror and lots of attacks.  Doombull unit with minotaurs alongside the Razorgor and Ungors will provide a strong hammer and anvil unit as well as the Bestigors having 2 Gor herds on flanking.  I also have the option of Ambushing with one of the Gor herds as well.  So far this is my favorite of the 3 but I'm still waffling on what to decide.

Great Bray Shaman List

Lord - Great Bray Shaman: General, Razorgor Chariot, The Steel Claws, Talisman of Protection (4+ ward), Gnarled Hide, Level 4, Lore of the Wild: 475

Hero - Gorebull: Battle Standard Bearer, Sword of Swift Slaying, Gambler's Armor, Ironcurse Icon, Shield - 239 - goes with Minotaurs

Core - 30 Gor Herd: Extra hand weapon, Full Command - 265

Core - 30 Gor Herd: Extra hand weapon, Full Command - 265

Core - 32 Ungor Herd: Spears, Full Command - 207

Core - 7 Chaos Warhounds - 42

Special - 6 Harpies: Scout - 84

Special - 5 Minotaurs: Shields, Full Command, Terror Mask on bloodkine - 370

Rare: Jabberslythe - 275

Rare: Jabberslythe - 275

Total: 2497

This list is going to actually use the Lore of the Wild and a Razorgor Chariot.  The GBS will hopefully get Savage Dominion and summon a 3rd Jabberslythe after casting Beastial Surge on the first turn.  This list is meant to be very fast and capitalize on Ambush.  Having a unit of scouting fliers and then hopefully 2-3 flying monsters will ensure I reach the opponents line as soon as possible and start mayhem.

Each army has 9-10 units and at least 3 banners + BSB.  The armies are close combat oriented and all of them have at least one of the themes I wanted to utilize in the army.  The main problem I ran into while trying to create a single list with the Beastmen was that I wanted to have everything that I thought looked cool and felt was fun but I couldn't due to point costs.  I probably could have gotten everything I had desired if I had really tried but then the army would be really small and that also does not work.  I think I will end up using all three lists and rotate them out since I have the models to support all three of them (well I need 1 more Jabberslythe model unless I decide to use the 3rd model as a Ghorgon...but yeah even then need 1 more thing!)  

Any feedback is appreciated but for the most part I have no idea which of the three lists will be the primary Beastman list.

They came from the North

Tonight I had the chance to play against my friend Larry's Nurgle themed Warriors of Chaos.  It was a tough list but one I enjoyed going up against thoroughly.  We played out 2500 point lists and Larry was able to patiently sit through six turns of my fuzzy-headed sniffling wood elf tomfoolery.  I apparently have a cold or sinus infection which has just made me tired and distracted.  Anyway, I'll just quote the guys and move on "Get over it sissy".
Larry's army was pretty balanced and if you will notice the sacred number is repeated through out.
Nurgle List:
1 Chaos Lord on steed w/ 6 Knights of Chaos - mark of nurgle
1 unit of 21 Chaos Chosen of Nurgle - mark of nurgle
2 units of 28 Warriors of Chaos - mark of nurgle
1 unit of 28 Marauders
1 unit of 7 Chaos Hounds
1 level 2 Chaos Sorcerer
1 Hellcannon
1 War Shrine

So if you look at it all you see is tough, tough and oh yeah more tough chaos warriors through out the army.  The Mark of Nurgle also automatically reduces the opponents WS by 1 in base to base and bestows a -1 to shooting at the unit.  It's a pain in the ass!

Anyway, I'll give you a brief summary of each round since once again I didn't take pictures of the damn battle.
Turn 1
Wood elves - Waywatchers sneak up and kill 4 Chaos Knights with Lethal Shot and the general's Bow of Loren and Arcane Bodkins combo.  Wood elves also kill all 7 Chaos Hounds and cause panic in the marauders.
Chaos - Knights charge Wild Riders with the Hellcannon (wtf I hate this thing) and win combat but fail to catch.  Knights reduced down to Lord.  Chaos Sorcerer casts some spell that inflicts wounds on every unit within 18" of the caster.  A great eagle gets blown the hell to pieces.
Turn 2
Wood elves charge Chaos Chosen with Treekin, Sorcerer unit of Warriors with Dryads.  Waywatchers kill the Chaos General.
Chaos - Hellcannon charges Waywatchers and wins combat and forces them to flee. Treekin and Dryads continue to chew up chaos and vice versa.  War shrine hooks up other chaos unit with a 2+ armor save grr...
Turn 3
Wood Elves - Chaos Chosen fall to the Treekin.  Wild Riders get chewed up along with a Great Eagle to the damn Hellcannon.  Non-engaged chaos warriors fail a charge against BSB and her unit of glade guard.  Spellweaver turns into a dragon.
Chaos - Hellcannon inflicts some wounds on the BSB unit, dryads are charged by unit they fled from and then die. Spellweaver gets dispelled, not a dragon.
Turn 4
Wood elves - Treekin charge warshrine, Warhawk riders charge sorcerer unit.  Ineffective shooting and I turn the spellweaver into a dragon - again.
Chaos - Warshrine dies to the Treekin and Warhawks lock combat with warriors.  Hellcannon misses BSB unit.  Spellweaver gets dispelled again, not a dragon.  Spellweaver unit flees combat from Marauders.
Turn 5 -
Wood Elves - Treekin charge unengaged unit of Chaos.  Warhawks die to warriors.  Spellweaver unit rallies and she turns into a dragon - again.
Chaos - Treekin lose combat to the chaos warriors and flee.  Chaos marauders fail charge. Rest of army reforms.
Turn 6 -
Wood Elves - Treekin fail rally and keep fleeing.  I turn into a dragon AGAIN!  I kill almost half the unit of chaos with breath weapon attack.  Chaos passes morale and says "ha ha no..."
Chaos - Dragon gets dispelled and chaos prevents any victory points from being stolen at the last minute by a foolhardy charge.  Oh yeah, Larry dispels my god damn dragon again.

Results:
Tie.

I really don't feel like this was a tie however, I had a Treekin fleeing at the end of the game and that unit was worth 390 points.  That should have counted as a victory point unit and given Larry the 390 point advantage and subsequently the win.  It was a good game and it concretes how I feel about my army.
Things I learned from the game:
1. I absolutely hate Hellcannons.  Those damn things are getting Amber Speared from now on or avoided in general.
2. Transformation of Kadon - when I get it that's great.  Using it as a counter for my opponents magic phase was a new tactic I hadn't thought about.  They don't want a dragon running rampant through their ranks so they will throw 5-6 dice at it to dispel it.
3. When you are charged by a Hellcannon - god damn it flee. Don't try to pull out the upset Stand and Shoot win cause it's not going to happen.
4.  Multi-charge units - I should have hit the chosen with the dryads AND treekin then overran into warshrine.  I also separated my archers which was a bad idea since I was no.1 outside the zone of my general's leadership and 2. I was outside the range of my BSB's zone for rerolls.  Poor positioning on my part. Very poor.
5. Keep your damn dice pool on the other side of the table.  I almost threw too many power dice the 2nd turn because my dumb ass counted out 11 dice, put down 11 dice and went to look at a card and grabbed the wrong set of dice and had 14 power dice.
6.  I really, really need to not spread out my melee units.  I once again allowed my 3 big melee units to get separated and their effectiveness was halved.  I will chock this up to ignorance on how the Hellcannon worked and now that I know. I will definitely do better next time.

Thanks for the game again Larry, it was a blast!


This now brings me to the second part of my post.
Apparently the type of armies that I create and play are not what are considered "normal and fun armies".  I will further qualify that statement by adding that my friends enjoy playing me and I don't have a broken list or anything like that.  I just apparently choose armies that specialize in hit and run tactics which frustrate people who I play against.  I hear the "it's not you it's the army" comment a lot as well.  But when you think about it, it really does = you.  You make the list, you play the army and you develop the tactics.  While your friends attempt to make you feel better by saying "it's the army not the player" - I'm pretty sure if someone else played my army that my friends would probably roll over the wood elves like a dutch hooker on freebie Fridays.  I don't take it personally, but I don't want to frustrate my friends either.  Am I just a douche to play against? I don't think I am. I would hope I'm not.  Hrm... anyway.
The "classic" theme for Warhammer Fantasy is to take huge blocks of guys and smash them into other blocks of guys and roll dice to see who wins.  I don't really have that in my army.  Not because I don't want to take it but because my army really doesn't provide me with those options.  I mean sure I could take 30 Eternal Guard but I don't have that many of them and I've gotten very used to my list.
Few folks will call my army a "points denial list" which doesn't really make sense to me since I am engaging you with half my army in melee while the other half strikes at your other units.  I combine mobility and functionality of the army in order to be successful.  If this doesn't encompass the classic feel of warhammer I don't know what to do other than to make lists that I don't care for or that don't function in the spirit of how the army book was written.  I think the premise is that warhammer fantasy is more tactical then people give it credit for.  No more are the days of guessing range and then maneuvering to see who charges first.  Now you have to look at your units and define in your head how they are supposed to work.  Not every unit is designed to ram into the front of a huge block of heavily armored infantry.  I've run into the same thing with 40k.  My eldar absolutely do not function like normal eldar armies.  I completely disrupt your ability to shoot me effectively then I charge you and engage you in close combat while MY ranged units clean up your army.

I'm concerned that perhaps my list creation and play style has perhaps turned me into an unconscious "Win at all costs" player.  I'm worried that I unintentionally make difficult armies to play against in order to ensure that I can win a game with ease.  That's really not my intention when making lists.  I don't know, I just keep hearing the same thing over and over from various people. "It's not a fun army to play against.  I don't like this type of army" etc...  I personally don't know what to do.  My armies function exactly how I want them too which is direct and with a purpose.
Wood elves - move my dedicated heavy melee units into position while my archers soften up the targets in order of priority.  Utilize waywatchers and spellweaver to take out key heavily armored units.
Eldar - Outflank and maneuver half the army in transports into my opponents deployment zone.  Engage into close combat with the key units and use my long range units to take out the rest of the army.
Black Templars - Barrel forward with every single melee unit and completely wipe out target no.1 then proceed to target 2 while my backfield softens up the secondary target.
I don't really care what my opponent brings - if I get experience playing against it and know what to expect then I can make mental notes on how to deal with it with my existing list.  I don't change my lists to ensure I can beat a unit, I change how I play it.

I hear the comment of "You play armies that disallow people to play their army the way they want to."  I don't think that the Wood Elves or Eldar were designed to counter act or negate other armies from functioning the way they were intended.  I think it's just that I understand how my opponents army works and take measures to counter that.  Whenever I am provided with an opportunity to learn something new about an army, I ensure I learn it and tuck that detail away.  Tonight was a perfect example - hellcannon 101.  Great lesson imho.

Winning - I personally can give a shit if I win or lose a game.  I enjoy playing.  Example: Larry's Chaos Daemon list - holy shit that was fun and I got my ass handed to me by it.  Eric's Slayer army back in 7th was also absolutely brutal.  I frigging LOVED that game.  I don't care what my opponent brings to the table.  I may not particularly care for it but if that's what he is going to bring then so be it.  If it's a complete assbeater unit or special character and I kill it.  Awesome.  If I get my ass kicked by it then I will at least know how it works and figure out how to beat it with my current list.  I enjoy a good challenge and I enjoy beating a challenge even more.

This brings up the other concern I have.  Will my beastman army also have this problem?  I fully intend on playing the army the way the army book presents it.  You have an entire army of little or no armored units that have a lot of attacks and are fast.  Half the units get hatred every round (dependent on successful LD roll) or they get frenzy.  I have the opportunity to ambush units to take out things in the backfield and if you think about it, this army is yet another hit and run type of army.  Yes, it's called the "War Herd" and initially you think - ok lots of goatmen and minotaurs hording up and killing shit.  That's fine. That's what some of the units do.  This army however has a ton of units that can flank and get multi-charges off with little or no effort.
So with this in mind you think "well then I need to take a ton of Gors in order to survive long drawn out battles".  Do you? Do you need to take an army of 170+ models to remain on the field? I don't think you do.  I think with Beastmen you can pick your fights by properly positioning units and get some pretty nasty flank charges off.  We'll see however.  I need to play with the army before I can start sounding like I know what the hell I am talking about =).

In closing - I just hope I'm not seeing a trend in how the armies I make are being regarded.  I work really hard at building, painting and playing the armies I obtain to have fun with friends.  I would really hate to think that people don't want to play against my armies because they think they are too hard or intentionally difficult - or that I'm just being an elitest douche!

I am very close to falling asleep since the sinus medication I took is making all this shit fuzzy.  I pray this post makes sense and is legible and not some long-winded diatribe in the format of stream of consciousness a.l.a. James Earl Joyce.

The Lost Kindred of Athel Loren - a.k.a. Sylvos's "counts as" Treekin

One thing I wanted to ensure my Wood elf army had were Werewolves.  Werewolves? Seriously? Yes.  I wanted an army that lives in an enchanted forest that houses Dryads, Treemen, Forest Spirits, Dragons and Elves to have friggin Werewolves.  I was reading in the Wood Elf army book where it had "rare" selections for the Dogs of War entry.  In there you can find things such as Scarloc's Wood Elves (old, old regiment of renown) and the Lost Kindred.  Since there is no documentation on "The Lost Kindred" that I have been able to locate, I in my brilliant mind, decided to implement Werewolves as the Lost Kindred and make them my Treekin.
I'm rather fond of the paint job I did on these, if I must say it's my best yet.

After completing these "Wolfkin", I started to work on painting the rest of my army.  I started with the Multi-based Wood elf Glade guards that I have.  I was going to prime them black first, then paint brown over everything wooden...but then I thought ...oh hell no.  Brown primer it is!

I'll be drybrushing other browns onto the brown primer but at the moment I am very pleased the brown turned out well.

Now to the second and more long winded part of the blog post.  I've managed to finally collect the necessary models for my Beastman army.  The problem is that the original list I created for 2500 points does not work, not at all.  Especially after you look at how few units were being fielded (6 total).  So...I'm going to post the two lists I have currently and will play them both until I feel that list a. or b. is a better fit for the theme I wanted to get across.

Oh yeah, the theme... that's rather important don't ya think?  When I first decided to look at another army for Warhammer Fantasy, I wanted to play an army completely unlike my Wood Elves.  I always feel that playing a different army helps you play your first one better.  So when I read the Beastman army book I immediately liked the Minotaurs and the Doombull.  Those had to be the centerpiece of the army... Then I decided that I wanted to create an army that was more of a War Herd.  Lots of models, very little ranged and lots of brutal close combat.

I'll list the things I wanted in the army and then the two lists I have currently.

Wants:
1. Doombull or Gorebull model.  I want to make my own character - Rorg.
2.  Beastlord or Wargor wielding the Steel Claws - Sabretooth.
3. Great Bray Shaman as a melee monster caster.
4. Lots of Gors
5. Minotaurs and Bestigors.
6. Cygor
7. A horde feel to the army but not a huge, clumsy number of units that would get in each others way.

So, with these things in mind I was able to create two lists that match my playstyle and as many of my criteria as possible.

List 1 - Beastlord General List

Lord - Beastlord w/ Steel-Claws, Armor of Destiny, Gnarled Hide - 245
Lord - Great Bray Shaman - Level 4, The Brass Cleaver, Talisman of Preservation - 310
Hero - Wargor - Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Heavy Armor, Sword of Swift Slaying, Dragonhelm, Talisman of Protection - 166
Core - 24 Gor Herd w/ extra hand weapon and full command - 217
Core - 24 Gor Herd w/ extra hand weapon and full command - 217
Core - 30 Ungor Herd w/ spears and full command - 195
Core - Tuskgor chariot - 80
Core - 5 Chaos Hounds - 30
Special - 19 Bestigors w/ full command and Manbane Standard - 293
Special - 6 Minotaurs w/ full command and shields - 404
Special - 6 Harpies - 66
Rare - Cygor - 275
Total - 2498

List 2 - Doombull General List

Lord - Doombull w/ Sword of Swift Slaying, Armor of Destiny, Gnarled Hide, Uncanny Senses - 341
Lord - Great Bray Shaman - Level 3, Mangelder, Talisman of Endurance - 280
Hero - Wargor - Battle Standard Bearer w/ Steel-claws, Talisman of Protection, Heavy Armor - 164
Core - 24 Gor Herd w/ extra hand weapon and full command - 217
Core - 25 Gor Herd w/ extra hand weapon and full command - 225
Core - 30 Ungor w/ spears and full command - 195
Core - 5 Chaos Hounds - 30
Core - 5 Chaos Hounds - 30
Special - 5 Minotaurs w/ full command, shields and terror mask - 370
Special - 20 Bestigors w/ full command and manbane standard - 305
Special - 6 Harpies - 66
Rare - Cygor - 275
Total - 2498

I'm still on the fence as to which list will work out better - I'll just assemble and play a few games.  I have the issue of choosing between a LD9 army that's pretty fast or a LD8 army that's very brutal.   Not to mention I've got like 5 other lists I'm debating on putting into the rotation as well.

We'll see I guess!